^ thank you
Snowden and Assange BOTH piss me off... they get so much media attention, but what really have either of them done? What have they really leaked or showed the world?
I still can't see anything that a half-assed CTer didn't already know 10 years prior
As for your second paragraph, I don't think everything is monitored but I do believe everything is being stored/archived for future possible use. How valuable is it to have EVERYONE'S online history? Plenty, I'd say.
If Snowden were for real he would have returned the favor for us and leaked all the private emails of the politicians and CEOs
Undercover agents involved in Recent Canadian 'Terror' Bust
http://news.nationalpost.com/2015/03/26/alleged-2013-canada-day-terror-plot-inspired-by-rambo-iii-court-hears-as-jurors-try-to-suppress-laughter/
In this artist's sketch, John Nuttall (left) and Amanda Korody appear in court in Vancouver, Monday. Feb.2, 2015. THE CANADIAN PRESS/Felicty Don
The massive investigation of a Surrey couple charged with the 2013 Canada Day terrorism plot was justified given last October’s so-called lone-wolf attacks, the key undercover agent involved believes.
The Mountie maintained accused John Nuttall’s inability to decide on a plan and other oddities did not mean the impoverished drug addicts weren’t a threat to public safety.
“There are a lot of terrorists who had plans, that started with multiple plans,” explained the corporal, who cannot be named or described by court order.
“They started with all these ideas — they were going to do this or this, then they start going to the plan that is more feasible for them …. It depends on the money they are going to need. … There are people that can afford to do 9/11; other people can’t do it. They do what happened in Ottawa and (St-Jean-sur-Richelieu) Quebec. They use a car, they use whatever they have. That is what we were doing here.”
He emphasized the point later in his testimony Wednesday: “Public safety is the big thing here.”
Both of the incidents in Eastern Canada occurred after the arrest in Abbotsford of the 40-year-old Nuttall and his wife Amanda Korody, 31, recent converts to Islam.
They have pleaded not guilty to four charges related to an alleged plan to detonate two pressure-cooker bombs before Canada Day celebrations at the B.C. legislature in Victoria.
Roughly 15 months later, on Oct. 20, another Islamic convert — Martin Rouleau, 25 — was killed by Quebec police after slamming his Nissan Altima into two military officers, killing Warrant Officer Patrice Vincent, 53.
Two days later, Muslim Michael Zehaf-Bibeau, 32, ran amok in Ottawa, shooting dead Canadian Forces Cpl. Nathan Cirillo, 24, before dying in a gunfight inside the Parliament buildings.
For the last two months, a B.C. Supreme Court jury has heard only from the RCMP officer while watching and listening to weeks of secretly recorded surveillance of the pair — a veritable epic documentary produced by the prosecution.
Since Monday, though, Nuttall’s lawyer Marilyn Sandford has been playing material the Crown left on the cutting-room floor and grilling the man who played a jihadist Arab businessman in the sophisticated sting that snared her client and Korody.
Prosecutor Peter Eccles raised several objections to the material being entered as evidence — and has not given up that fight, though Justice Catherine Bruce has so far summarily dismissed his complaints that it is irrelevant.
The unemployed heroin addicts on methadone living in a basement apartment had been homeless alcoholics before converting to Islam.
Throughout the surveillance, the towering six-foot-five Nuttall delivers an almost endless monologue filled with confused versions of world history, strange conspiracy theories, his understanding of Reaganomics or the deep inspiration he found in Rambo III.
“That [Sylvester Stallone film] really opened my eyes,” Nuttall insisted as a handful of jurors struggled to suppress laughter.
Over the course of the five-month operation, police pretending to be Islamic extremists paid Nuttall to do odd jobs, bought him a new suit, supplied the couple with food, took them on trips to Whistler and the Okanagan, ultimately providing vehicles, hotel rooms and the phoney bombs planted in Victoria.
The corporal testily responded to the implication that the investigation involving roughly 240 officers was misguided.
“What we were doing was a long investigation — we were spending a lot of taxpayers’ money there,” he conceded. “We had to see if this guy is for real or not. Do we stop it or do we keep on going to check … is he going to do it?”
But the mercurial Nuttall often talked nonsense.
For instance, pressed to come up with a plausible plan, Nuttall described seizing a passenger train in Victoria to trade hostages for the release of Omar Khadr, the imprisoned convicted Canadian war criminal formerly confined at Guantanamo Bay.
Nuttall planned to let women and children go but line up the men against the train’s windows so sharpshooters couldn’t be deployed while an accomplice on a nearby rooftop picked off SWAT team member trying to rush the train.
Unfortunately, there was no passenger train — the service was discontinued years ago, and when the Mountie found out, he scolded Nuttall as if he were a recalcitrant child.
“My help is still there,” the officer said during the May 10 meeting, “but I need something that can be done.”
Nuttall responded that he could fire homemade rockets at the legislature and then storm CFB Esquimalt with a hit squad.
“Take them by utter surprise … head-shot, head-shot, head-shot, pop, pop, pop,” he fantasized, adding that he would need to take up model rocketry as a hobby.
“I want to not hurt innocent people, I don’t want to blow myself up but I want to do as much damage to their infrastructure from within. OK, I don’t know how to do that, I don’t have any better ideas.”
Sandford wondered if it all suggested Nuttall wasn’t serious.
“I don’t think so,” the officer insisted.
“I spent time with Mr. Nuttall and that wasn’t the message I was getting. I spent time with Mr. Nuttall, I spent too much time with him. … There was time when I wanted to take time off, I wanted to do other projects instead of doing that one because it was too much.”
The trial continues.
In this artist's sketch, John Nuttall (left) and Amanda Korody appear in court in Vancouver, Monday. Feb.2, 2015. THE CANADIAN PRESS/Felicty Don
The massive investigation of a Surrey couple charged with the 2013 Canada Day terrorism plot was justified given last October’s so-called lone-wolf attacks, the key undercover agent involved believes.
The Mountie maintained accused John Nuttall’s inability to decide on a plan and other oddities did not mean the impoverished drug addicts weren’t a threat to public safety.
“There are a lot of terrorists who had plans, that started with multiple plans,” explained the corporal, who cannot be named or described by court order.
“They started with all these ideas — they were going to do this or this, then they start going to the plan that is more feasible for them …. It depends on the money they are going to need. … There are people that can afford to do 9/11; other people can’t do it. They do what happened in Ottawa and (St-Jean-sur-Richelieu) Quebec. They use a car, they use whatever they have. That is what we were doing here.”
He emphasized the point later in his testimony Wednesday: “Public safety is the big thing here.”
Both of the incidents in Eastern Canada occurred after the arrest in Abbotsford of the 40-year-old Nuttall and his wife Amanda Korody, 31, recent converts to Islam.
They have pleaded not guilty to four charges related to an alleged plan to detonate two pressure-cooker bombs before Canada Day celebrations at the B.C. legislature in Victoria.
Roughly 15 months later, on Oct. 20, another Islamic convert — Martin Rouleau, 25 — was killed by Quebec police after slamming his Nissan Altima into two military officers, killing Warrant Officer Patrice Vincent, 53.
Two days later, Muslim Michael Zehaf-Bibeau, 32, ran amok in Ottawa, shooting dead Canadian Forces Cpl. Nathan Cirillo, 24, before dying in a gunfight inside the Parliament buildings.
For the last two months, a B.C. Supreme Court jury has heard only from the RCMP officer while watching and listening to weeks of secretly recorded surveillance of the pair — a veritable epic documentary produced by the prosecution.
Since Monday, though, Nuttall’s lawyer Marilyn Sandford has been playing material the Crown left on the cutting-room floor and grilling the man who played a jihadist Arab businessman in the sophisticated sting that snared her client and Korody.
Prosecutor Peter Eccles raised several objections to the material being entered as evidence — and has not given up that fight, though Justice Catherine Bruce has so far summarily dismissed his complaints that it is irrelevant.
The unemployed heroin addicts on methadone living in a basement apartment had been homeless alcoholics before converting to Islam.
Throughout the surveillance, the towering six-foot-five Nuttall delivers an almost endless monologue filled with confused versions of world history, strange conspiracy theories, his understanding of Reaganomics or the deep inspiration he found in Rambo III.
“That [Sylvester Stallone film] really opened my eyes,” Nuttall insisted as a handful of jurors struggled to suppress laughter.
Over the course of the five-month operation, police pretending to be Islamic extremists paid Nuttall to do odd jobs, bought him a new suit, supplied the couple with food, took them on trips to Whistler and the Okanagan, ultimately providing vehicles, hotel rooms and the phoney bombs planted in Victoria.
The corporal testily responded to the implication that the investigation involving roughly 240 officers was misguided.
“What we were doing was a long investigation — we were spending a lot of taxpayers’ money there,” he conceded. “We had to see if this guy is for real or not. Do we stop it or do we keep on going to check … is he going to do it?”
But the mercurial Nuttall often talked nonsense.
For instance, pressed to come up with a plausible plan, Nuttall described seizing a passenger train in Victoria to trade hostages for the release of Omar Khadr, the imprisoned convicted Canadian war criminal formerly confined at Guantanamo Bay.
Nuttall planned to let women and children go but line up the men against the train’s windows so sharpshooters couldn’t be deployed while an accomplice on a nearby rooftop picked off SWAT team member trying to rush the train.
Unfortunately, there was no passenger train — the service was discontinued years ago, and when the Mountie found out, he scolded Nuttall as if he were a recalcitrant child.
“My help is still there,” the officer said during the May 10 meeting, “but I need something that can be done.”
Nuttall responded that he could fire homemade rockets at the legislature and then storm CFB Esquimalt with a hit squad.
“Take them by utter surprise … head-shot, head-shot, head-shot, pop, pop, pop,” he fantasized, adding that he would need to take up model rocketry as a hobby.
“I want to not hurt innocent people, I don’t want to blow myself up but I want to do as much damage to their infrastructure from within. OK, I don’t know how to do that, I don’t have any better ideas.”
Sandford wondered if it all suggested Nuttall wasn’t serious.
“I don’t think so,” the officer insisted.
“I spent time with Mr. Nuttall and that wasn’t the message I was getting. I spent time with Mr. Nuttall, I spent too much time with him. … There was time when I wanted to take time off, I wanted to do other projects instead of doing that one because it was too much.”
The trial continues.
-
Canuckster
- Posts: 6742
- Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 5:24 pm
- Reputation: 3081
Nutall? That can't be real ffs, how stupid are we?
People say they all want the truth, but when they are confronted with a truth that disagrees with them, they balk at it as if it were an unwanted zombie apocalypse come to destroy civilization.
Hey MAJOR UPDATE here:
A friend of mine has been following this case pretty closely, and it just came out in a trial that the 'terrorists' involved in the so-called Canada Day plot were absolutely and totally set up and helped along by RCMP insiders.
This is really, really big news imo
Vancouver Sun bold enough (or dumb enough lol) to print the story:
http://vancouversun.com/news/crime/ian- ... n-the-room
Ian Mulgrew: Terror trial ends with elephant in the room
B.C. Supreme Court Justice Catherine Bruce says she must confront “the elephant in the room” to decide the fate of a Surrey couple found guilty of terrorism for the 2013 Canada Day plot.
The question, she said, was not whether, without the elaborate RCMP sting, the heinous scheme would have occurred but whether John Nuttall and Amanda Korody were even capable of it.
Bruce feared that without police help “not (that the pair) wouldn’t have committed, but couldn’t have committed” the planned bombing at the legislature.
“Given what we’ve seen of their behaviour over the months and months preceding the actual planting on the first of July, what did they do that would indicate they were capable of doing this on their own?” the judge asked.
The prosecution appeared stymied.
A jury convicted Nuttall and Korody a year ago of planting inert bombs in Victoria but their convictions are in abeyance while Bruce rules on defence arguments the duo were entrapped or were victims of police misconduct.
Those proceedings ended Friday after Bruce raised serious qualms about the Crown case.
She suggested that given the extent of police assistance to the poor, recovering addicts — small amounts of money, groceries, access to methadone, transportation, hotel rooms, putative explosives — “a blind person” could have carried out the murderous plan.
“(Police have) taken them there, they’ve given them the resources, they’ve shown them what to do, they’ve told them where to put it, they’ve made the bomb for them, and then they’ve said, ‘OK, it’s right there, take a few steps, drop it,’” Bruce said.
“Now, what you are saying is that’s not entrapment.”
The prosecution replied that in the case of a hypothetical blind person, police should be judged not by the entrapment test but under general abuse-of-process rules.
The difference is a finding of entrapment triggers an automatic stay of the proceedings; other kinds of abuse of process require the judge to weigh factors such as the gravity of the offence to decide whether police misconduct was so egregious as to demand the accused walk free.
Bruce was not satisfied and asked how the prosecution thought, for instance, the two could have obtained explosive material if not from the RCMP?
Prosecutor Sharon Steele said Korody had suggested they could buy bullets and empty the cartridges of gunpowder to produce improvised explosive devices.
When the judge pointed out Korody had no identification, so couldn’t go to a gun shop to buy ammunition, Steele said Korody was trying to get her ID.
“Apart from that, which is a bit of a long shot,” Bruce continued, “that she would be able to buy thousands of bullets on her welfare cheque, and get her identification, it was kind of a long-term project that perhaps they didn’t have the focus to accomplish, but you would think that would be, I think, that just seems to be the elephant in the room, doesn’t it?”
The Crown maintained the 2011 converts to Islam were more than capable of carrying out mass murder and that the “innovative” five-month undercover operation was well within the law and expectations of Canadians.
The defence urged Bruce to “consider humanity and the human condition,” recognize the vulnerabilities of Nuttall and Korody and conclude police broke the law in the investigation.
The lonely couple shared a single methadone prescription, lived in a suburban basement suite with its blinds drawn almost constantly, and were struggling to get their lives together on social assistance, often going hungry.
Their lawyers said the two became emotionally attached to the undercover officer (who violated their religious rights by giving them poor spiritual advice) and were afraid of being killed by his RCMP colleagues pretending to be mujahedeen.
Lawyer Mark Jette told the justice she must consider the situation of someone in those circumstances, not someone sitting at home, not necessarily “a law-abiding” person watching TV.
Should the state be exacerbating the trouble such challenged people have just getting by using such a sophisticated snare?
The judge said she would issue a decision July 29 or earlier.
A friend of mine has been following this case pretty closely, and it just came out in a trial that the 'terrorists' involved in the so-called Canada Day plot were absolutely and totally set up and helped along by RCMP insiders.
This is really, really big news imo
Vancouver Sun bold enough (or dumb enough lol) to print the story:
http://vancouversun.com/news/crime/ian- ... n-the-room
Ian Mulgrew: Terror trial ends with elephant in the room
B.C. Supreme Court Justice Catherine Bruce says she must confront “the elephant in the room” to decide the fate of a Surrey couple found guilty of terrorism for the 2013 Canada Day plot.
The question, she said, was not whether, without the elaborate RCMP sting, the heinous scheme would have occurred but whether John Nuttall and Amanda Korody were even capable of it.
Bruce feared that without police help “not (that the pair) wouldn’t have committed, but couldn’t have committed” the planned bombing at the legislature.
“Given what we’ve seen of their behaviour over the months and months preceding the actual planting on the first of July, what did they do that would indicate they were capable of doing this on their own?” the judge asked.
The prosecution appeared stymied.
A jury convicted Nuttall and Korody a year ago of planting inert bombs in Victoria but their convictions are in abeyance while Bruce rules on defence arguments the duo were entrapped or were victims of police misconduct.
Those proceedings ended Friday after Bruce raised serious qualms about the Crown case.
She suggested that given the extent of police assistance to the poor, recovering addicts — small amounts of money, groceries, access to methadone, transportation, hotel rooms, putative explosives — “a blind person” could have carried out the murderous plan.
“(Police have) taken them there, they’ve given them the resources, they’ve shown them what to do, they’ve told them where to put it, they’ve made the bomb for them, and then they’ve said, ‘OK, it’s right there, take a few steps, drop it,’” Bruce said.
“Now, what you are saying is that’s not entrapment.”
The prosecution replied that in the case of a hypothetical blind person, police should be judged not by the entrapment test but under general abuse-of-process rules.
The difference is a finding of entrapment triggers an automatic stay of the proceedings; other kinds of abuse of process require the judge to weigh factors such as the gravity of the offence to decide whether police misconduct was so egregious as to demand the accused walk free.
Bruce was not satisfied and asked how the prosecution thought, for instance, the two could have obtained explosive material if not from the RCMP?
Prosecutor Sharon Steele said Korody had suggested they could buy bullets and empty the cartridges of gunpowder to produce improvised explosive devices.
When the judge pointed out Korody had no identification, so couldn’t go to a gun shop to buy ammunition, Steele said Korody was trying to get her ID.
“Apart from that, which is a bit of a long shot,” Bruce continued, “that she would be able to buy thousands of bullets on her welfare cheque, and get her identification, it was kind of a long-term project that perhaps they didn’t have the focus to accomplish, but you would think that would be, I think, that just seems to be the elephant in the room, doesn’t it?”
The Crown maintained the 2011 converts to Islam were more than capable of carrying out mass murder and that the “innovative” five-month undercover operation was well within the law and expectations of Canadians.
The defence urged Bruce to “consider humanity and the human condition,” recognize the vulnerabilities of Nuttall and Korody and conclude police broke the law in the investigation.
The lonely couple shared a single methadone prescription, lived in a suburban basement suite with its blinds drawn almost constantly, and were struggling to get their lives together on social assistance, often going hungry.
Their lawyers said the two became emotionally attached to the undercover officer (who violated their religious rights by giving them poor spiritual advice) and were afraid of being killed by his RCMP colleagues pretending to be mujahedeen.
Lawyer Mark Jette told the justice she must consider the situation of someone in those circumstances, not someone sitting at home, not necessarily “a law-abiding” person watching TV.
Should the state be exacerbating the trouble such challenged people have just getting by using such a sophisticated snare?
The judge said she would issue a decision July 29 or earlier.
Return to “The Grand Chessboard”
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 311 guests