This is just the current context through which I think about it
Why Men Think About The Roman Empire Daily
Re: Why Men Think About The Roman Empire Daily
I'm not really off topic lol because I DO think about the Roman Empire a lot. Maybe daily.
This is just the current context through which I think about it
This is just the current context through which I think about it
I might end up dampening some fires, but hopefully I can also kindle some new ones.
Old buildings dont survive in North America because in the Early Modern period everyone used wood frame architecture and also used oil lamps, candles, etc. We often still have the stone/brick husk of old buildings with nice little plaques saying what they used to be.
About old stuff being build really fast, we had Irish indentured servants and absolutely zero regulations. We built a railroad across all of Canada in like 3 years. No power tools, trucks, etc. It would take 30 years today because workers have rights and builders need 10 different licenses and approvals. Remember that children working 14 hours of manual labour a day was normal until like 120 years ago.
About the sudden proliferation of the old style, check out my thread in the sanctuary on the age of Romanticism. It was an age of reflecting on the past and trying to connect to our inner noble spirit that helped us achieve those great feats, and would once again awaken within us. Its at this point that some of your theories start to ring true, especially as the romantic era gave way to the 20th century.
Old buildings dont survive in North America because in the Early Modern period everyone used wood frame architecture and also used oil lamps, candles, etc. We often still have the stone/brick husk of old buildings with nice little plaques saying what they used to be.
About old stuff being build really fast, we had Irish indentured servants and absolutely zero regulations. We built a railroad across all of Canada in like 3 years. No power tools, trucks, etc. It would take 30 years today because workers have rights and builders need 10 different licenses and approvals. Remember that children working 14 hours of manual labour a day was normal until like 120 years ago.
About the sudden proliferation of the old style, check out my thread in the sanctuary on the age of Romanticism. It was an age of reflecting on the past and trying to connect to our inner noble spirit that helped us achieve those great feats, and would once again awaken within us. Its at this point that some of your theories start to ring true, especially as the romantic era gave way to the 20th century.
P.S. I believe you have missed the most Greco-Roman of all American monuments - The giant statue of Zeus/Jupiter with Lincoln's face carved into it.
Luigi is the best! lol
Anything else you got is gold, brother. Thanks for entertaining my crazy ideas with patience lol
I had a quick peek at the Zeus/Lincoln connection but could not find anything that seemed concrete. Some esoteric jargon but I didn't follow how they connect those images/statues
What are you referring to?
Also as I understand most of these 'Old World' buildings were STONE, not wood.
Also what do you think of a theory that all these domed spires may have had a function, and not just for decoration? Why the domed tops on ALL of these buildings? What was the purpose? Just to look good?
I've heard some theories that maybe they could actually extract electricity from the air or something, like what Tesla said could be done.
Some theories show how many of these buildings do NOT have scorching or residue from oil lamps etc, and question how they were lit. (like the inside chambers of the Egyptian pyramids)
Your comments about the age of Romanticism being "an age of reflecting on the past and trying to connect to our inner noble spirit that helped us achieve those great feats, and would once again awaken within us" is great.
Somehow, humanity seems to have strayed far from this, almost to the point of a total inversion; we relish in fast food crap and disposable/perverted entertainment, and very very few even remember how to make anything of True Beauty anymore.
I feel strongly that a flip is naturally due again, and I hope to see the beginnings of it in my lifetime.
Anything else you got is gold, brother. Thanks for entertaining my crazy ideas with patience lol
I had a quick peek at the Zeus/Lincoln connection but could not find anything that seemed concrete. Some esoteric jargon but I didn't follow how they connect those images/statues
What are you referring to?
Also as I understand most of these 'Old World' buildings were STONE, not wood.
Also what do you think of a theory that all these domed spires may have had a function, and not just for decoration? Why the domed tops on ALL of these buildings? What was the purpose? Just to look good?
I've heard some theories that maybe they could actually extract electricity from the air or something, like what Tesla said could be done.
Some theories show how many of these buildings do NOT have scorching or residue from oil lamps etc, and question how they were lit. (like the inside chambers of the Egyptian pyramids)
Your comments about the age of Romanticism being "an age of reflecting on the past and trying to connect to our inner noble spirit that helped us achieve those great feats, and would once again awaken within us" is great.
Somehow, humanity seems to have strayed far from this, almost to the point of a total inversion; we relish in fast food crap and disposable/perverted entertainment, and very very few even remember how to make anything of True Beauty anymore.
I feel strongly that a flip is naturally due again, and I hope to see the beginnings of it in my lifetime.
Coming back to the Roman Empire... (lol)
I grew into an adulthood where it was quickly discovered that the governments/societal structure was completely evil and corrupted. I was horrified to discover that the whole game is a rigged cesspool of lies and sin.
Out of this, I internalized more ideas of individual liberty and civilized/moral anarchy.
So when I think of the Roman Empire I tend to see it through these eyes, and I mostly see a similar thing; a terrifyingly powerful, corrupted violent regime that will fuck you up if you don't comply and obey.
And yet, when I hear Luigi talk of the Age of Romanticism, I start to wonder if it's possible that any sort of 'Empire' on earth, throughout history or any time in the future, could by any stretch of the imagination be good at heart? Wise? Benevolent? Truthful?
To me it seems impossible. Am I wrong? Does not all power eventually corrupt mankind, and lead us away from God?
Does anyone see the Roman Empire through a different lens than me, & see it as a high point in Human civilization morally and ethically, as well as militarily/financially/politically?
Could it have been this, for some of its time?
Could such an Empire ever exist in the future?
Sometimes I think Hitler's Germany may have felt like this idealism for a very short time, before the fighting with international Jewry, before actual fighting/war broke out.
But then you see how quickly such an empire descends into madness and horror...
Sometimes I think I've lost faith in Humanity's ability to resist corruption/run any sort of civilized Empire
but hope is always good I suppose.
I grew into an adulthood where it was quickly discovered that the governments/societal structure was completely evil and corrupted. I was horrified to discover that the whole game is a rigged cesspool of lies and sin.
Out of this, I internalized more ideas of individual liberty and civilized/moral anarchy.
So when I think of the Roman Empire I tend to see it through these eyes, and I mostly see a similar thing; a terrifyingly powerful, corrupted violent regime that will fuck you up if you don't comply and obey.
And yet, when I hear Luigi talk of the Age of Romanticism, I start to wonder if it's possible that any sort of 'Empire' on earth, throughout history or any time in the future, could by any stretch of the imagination be good at heart? Wise? Benevolent? Truthful?
To me it seems impossible. Am I wrong? Does not all power eventually corrupt mankind, and lead us away from God?
Does anyone see the Roman Empire through a different lens than me, & see it as a high point in Human civilization morally and ethically, as well as militarily/financially/politically?
Could it have been this, for some of its time?
Could such an Empire ever exist in the future?
Sometimes I think Hitler's Germany may have felt like this idealism for a very short time, before the fighting with international Jewry, before actual fighting/war broke out.
But then you see how quickly such an empire descends into madness and horror...
Sometimes I think I've lost faith in Humanity's ability to resist corruption/run any sort of civilized Empire
but hope is always good I suppose.
This is the Lincoln Memorial:
This is a reconstruction of the Statue of Zeus at Olympia:
This may interest you as well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parthenon_(Nashville)
Not sure why Old World buildings at that time would have different construction techniques. One project which would have been quite unique was the Koln/Cologne cathedral, which was started in medieval times but not completed until the romantic period. Plenty would have been wood frame. Old World also had to deal with WW2 happening at a time when aircraft technology was very advanced but anti-aircraft technology was very primitive, hence everything got bombed constantly for 5-9 years.
The domes are so popular because in the late classical and early medieval period Constantinople was a symbol of power, tradition, and Romanness and every king or emperor did their best impression of a Roman Emperor and tried to rival or outdo the Hagia Sophia in Constantinople. The Hagia Sophia's innovative vaulted dome was impressive and at such a scale was an architectural marvel. So tons of stuff copied the Hagia Sophia, and Romantic era architects copied that stuff. Spires basically just look nice and make a building much taller/grander in a cheap and artificial way.
I also hope to see the flip in my lifetime, though typically such inversions happen when the current model crashes and burns, which at least in America probably wont happen in the next 50 years. Canada, France, and Sweden are ground zero, we might get to see these places go up in flames but any kind of break away from the American imperial order will likely be quashed.
About your question on empire, the Greek philosophers had their own answer 2K+ years ago, the idea that the ideal society was one with a philosopher king. Rome eventually manifested this dream when Marcus Aurelius, one of the greatest stoic philosophers, was their emperor. It was however Aurelius himself who made sure this did not continue, as he was the one emperor who instituted the rule of hereditary succession. Thats right, the same old model that kings and even tribal chieftans have used since the dawn of time. His son Commodus was a pompous ass and fairly poor ruler, so indeed we were in every sense back to the basics.
Rome was certainly wise, but certainly not benevolent, truthful, or "good" according to some kind of morality. I think it was their wisdom that showed them how cut-throat the world was, which made sure they were not especially friendly. Does power always corrupt? From a modern perspective the answer is probably yes. People in power will use that power to look after themselves and their immediate family first and foremost. When being in power is a cushy office job where culpability is often superficial and only lasts 5-10 years before someone is blaming someone else, its easy to understand why we hate this. Traditionally, being in power and getting your family rich was understood to be human nature, thus we created institutions which codified this and gave them additional responsibilities. This created the warrior aristocracy class, the Kshatriya. In exchange for their wealth and privilege they were leading the charge at the frontlines of every battlefield.
Corruption of course can extend far beyond just using your power to get rich and get your family rich. When I think of corruption I think of a lot more than that. To put things simple, you can expect the commoner to be less rich than you, but you shouldnt be selling them or indeed your entire civilization down the river to get rich. This is a corruption which exists also as a kind of treason and perversion. It can only manifest in a mind of unnatural filth and degeneracy, or alternatively an enemy infiltrator. Does empire necessitate all this? Nope, or else no empire would last more than 200 years, yet plenty lasted much longer.
As for Hitler, I think he got some things right, got some things wrong, but ultimately his project got cut short so we never got to see a proper manifestation.
Also to be clear Rome had plenty of treason and degeneracy itself, it was excellent but far from ideal. For me what gave Rome such a crazy legacy was that it was so good at adapting to all of the crazy problems it was constantly facing. Of course their luck didnt last forever though.
This is a reconstruction of the Statue of Zeus at Olympia:
This may interest you as well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parthenon_(Nashville)
Not sure why Old World buildings at that time would have different construction techniques. One project which would have been quite unique was the Koln/Cologne cathedral, which was started in medieval times but not completed until the romantic period. Plenty would have been wood frame. Old World also had to deal with WW2 happening at a time when aircraft technology was very advanced but anti-aircraft technology was very primitive, hence everything got bombed constantly for 5-9 years.
The domes are so popular because in the late classical and early medieval period Constantinople was a symbol of power, tradition, and Romanness and every king or emperor did their best impression of a Roman Emperor and tried to rival or outdo the Hagia Sophia in Constantinople. The Hagia Sophia's innovative vaulted dome was impressive and at such a scale was an architectural marvel. So tons of stuff copied the Hagia Sophia, and Romantic era architects copied that stuff. Spires basically just look nice and make a building much taller/grander in a cheap and artificial way.
I also hope to see the flip in my lifetime, though typically such inversions happen when the current model crashes and burns, which at least in America probably wont happen in the next 50 years. Canada, France, and Sweden are ground zero, we might get to see these places go up in flames but any kind of break away from the American imperial order will likely be quashed.
About your question on empire, the Greek philosophers had their own answer 2K+ years ago, the idea that the ideal society was one with a philosopher king. Rome eventually manifested this dream when Marcus Aurelius, one of the greatest stoic philosophers, was their emperor. It was however Aurelius himself who made sure this did not continue, as he was the one emperor who instituted the rule of hereditary succession. Thats right, the same old model that kings and even tribal chieftans have used since the dawn of time. His son Commodus was a pompous ass and fairly poor ruler, so indeed we were in every sense back to the basics.
Rome was certainly wise, but certainly not benevolent, truthful, or "good" according to some kind of morality. I think it was their wisdom that showed them how cut-throat the world was, which made sure they were not especially friendly. Does power always corrupt? From a modern perspective the answer is probably yes. People in power will use that power to look after themselves and their immediate family first and foremost. When being in power is a cushy office job where culpability is often superficial and only lasts 5-10 years before someone is blaming someone else, its easy to understand why we hate this. Traditionally, being in power and getting your family rich was understood to be human nature, thus we created institutions which codified this and gave them additional responsibilities. This created the warrior aristocracy class, the Kshatriya. In exchange for their wealth and privilege they were leading the charge at the frontlines of every battlefield.
Corruption of course can extend far beyond just using your power to get rich and get your family rich. When I think of corruption I think of a lot more than that. To put things simple, you can expect the commoner to be less rich than you, but you shouldnt be selling them or indeed your entire civilization down the river to get rich. This is a corruption which exists also as a kind of treason and perversion. It can only manifest in a mind of unnatural filth and degeneracy, or alternatively an enemy infiltrator. Does empire necessitate all this? Nope, or else no empire would last more than 200 years, yet plenty lasted much longer.
As for Hitler, I think he got some things right, got some things wrong, but ultimately his project got cut short so we never got to see a proper manifestation.
Also to be clear Rome had plenty of treason and degeneracy itself, it was excellent but far from ideal. For me what gave Rome such a crazy legacy was that it was so good at adapting to all of the crazy problems it was constantly facing. Of course their luck didnt last forever though.
Amazing, Luigi, thank you.
So in the hollywood movie 'Gladiator', was it fictional bullshit that Aurelius handed his power to one of his Generals, because he knew his son was a turd?
If this is fake history, I wonder if there may be any subtle reasons why Hollywood might want to twist this?
Or maybe its just a good yarn to spin
As for the Zeus/Lincoln memorial, I'm still not really seeing any direct parallels. Their kind of similar I suppose but even before your post I found some articles but could not see anything visual that actually connected for me. I'd be curious if you have some connections that I'm not understanding.
Do you think there was actually an intentional homage to the Zeus statue from the builder(s)?
*Your link seems to be dead
I was actually able to find some images of Lincoln Memorial construction. Most with the building complete but w/just scaffolding (which is usually the best you can find for these N American buildings around that time) but there were a few that actually showed mid-construction which was refreshing (it is kind of creepy how many of these amazing buildings seem to have no evidence of construction).
Of course there was photo-faking in those days too but I'll give this one the benefit of the doubt.
I admire your optimism about USA not falling in the next 50 years. Sometimes I see it possibly a lot sooner.
And yes the lens in which most seem to enjoy thinking about the Roman Empire was their ingenuity to solve problems and invent amazing shit out of necessity and garner an attitude that nothing couldn't be solved or accomplished. An optimistic view of man's limits
Thank you for your time Luigi, always love to listen to your ideas and info
So in the hollywood movie 'Gladiator', was it fictional bullshit that Aurelius handed his power to one of his Generals, because he knew his son was a turd?
If this is fake history, I wonder if there may be any subtle reasons why Hollywood might want to twist this?
Or maybe its just a good yarn to spin
As for the Zeus/Lincoln memorial, I'm still not really seeing any direct parallels. Their kind of similar I suppose but even before your post I found some articles but could not see anything visual that actually connected for me. I'd be curious if you have some connections that I'm not understanding.
Do you think there was actually an intentional homage to the Zeus statue from the builder(s)?
*Your link seems to be dead
I was actually able to find some images of Lincoln Memorial construction. Most with the building complete but w/just scaffolding (which is usually the best you can find for these N American buildings around that time) but there were a few that actually showed mid-construction which was refreshing (it is kind of creepy how many of these amazing buildings seem to have no evidence of construction).
Of course there was photo-faking in those days too but I'll give this one the benefit of the doubt.
I admire your optimism about USA not falling in the next 50 years. Sometimes I see it possibly a lot sooner.
And yes the lens in which most seem to enjoy thinking about the Roman Empire was their ingenuity to solve problems and invent amazing shit out of necessity and garner an attitude that nothing couldn't be solved or accomplished. An optimistic view of man's limits
Thank you for your time Luigi, always love to listen to your ideas and info
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Edge Guerrero
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- Was thinki9ng about this thread yesterday. Cant take The Roman hollydays cartoon theme of my head.
- I rent this space for advertising
Don't be selfish, preserve this world for the next generations.
I'll never long for what might have been
Regret won't waste my life again
I won't look back I'll fight to remain
Don't be selfish, preserve this world for the next generations.
I'll never long for what might have been
Regret won't waste my life again
I won't look back I'll fight to remain
Edge Guerrero wrote:- Was thinki9ng about this thread yesterday. Cant take The Roman hollydays cartoon theme of my head.
Share your pain/post a link
I don't know what you're talking about.
Luigi, I'm gonna still keep the possibility open that the old domed spires were Tesla electricity grabber thingys for a while longer if that's OK with you
Great thread!
That was hollywood faking history. Aurelius was co-emperor with his son for 3 years before his death. The design of the Lincoln memorial is that of a Greek temple. The large central statue is certainly modeled on a Greek cult statue and being seated on a throne points to the lordly figure of Zeus.
You know Mas, the hardest part about selling archaeology to the public is making them care about architecture and pottery. Since you have already developed an interest in one of those I think you might really like archaeology. The archaeology magazine you can find on many magazine racks is actually a really good magazine and I think you would really like flipping through an issue every now and then. On the one hand it can get into fine details, but on the other hand each article is only like 1-5 pages long and very much written to be fun and easy to digest. I've got a ton of issues and can mail them to you if you want.
And me thinking it will take 50+ years for America to fall is actually my pessimism, the closer we are to social upheaval the closer we are to globalist heads sitting on spears
You know Mas, the hardest part about selling archaeology to the public is making them care about architecture and pottery. Since you have already developed an interest in one of those I think you might really like archaeology. The archaeology magazine you can find on many magazine racks is actually a really good magazine and I think you would really like flipping through an issue every now and then. On the one hand it can get into fine details, but on the other hand each article is only like 1-5 pages long and very much written to be fun and easy to digest. I've got a ton of issues and can mail them to you if you want.
And me thinking it will take 50+ years for America to fall is actually my pessimism, the closer we are to social upheaval the closer we are to globalist heads sitting on spears
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